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Zrt Project Long Travel front end, rolled chain case and new floor boards

#1 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:27 PM

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OK so I have decided to post the on going project. Normally I build them from scratch, however some how I was talked into using an existing chassis that I purchased from a co-workers brother for $50. Let me tell that story first. The engine has the PTO piston melted to the cylinder. They told me that the crank seal was bad. He put three (3) pistons in that one cylinder and burned all three (3) down! Like most of us he was done with it and sold it to me. I stared to break the sled down and I could not believe what I saw. The oil line to that cylinder was disconnected!! This thing was rough.

Take a look and if you have questions I hope I can answer them.

MC
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#2 User is offline   Delow Icon

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 02:15 PM

Wow that is pretty rough. It is a good project, gonna be a lot of work. Generally when you redo an engine you check over everything really, really hard to make sure everything is connected right. Having that oil line had to kill it pretty fast. What I want to ask is what all do you have planned for it, you said it had AGLT mod done already? While you have it apart are you going to put the 136 kit on it also? I bet you are going to have a lot into that engine though, scary! Anyways good luck and keep the pictures and updates coming! :D
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#3 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 04:55 PM

View PostDelow, on 14 August 2011 - 02:15 PM, said:

Wow that is pretty rough. It is a good project, gonna be a lot of work. Generally when you redo an engine you check over everything really, really hard to make sure everything is connected right. Having that oil line had to kill it pretty fast. What I want to ask is what all do you have planned for it, you said it had AGLT mod done already? While you have it apart are you going to put the 136 kit on it also? I bet you are going to have a lot into that engine though, scary! Anyways good luck and keep the pictures and updates coming! :D

Delow,

I have another engine that we plan to use. Your right about how quick it went back down. He said it would take about ten minutes and then it was done. Crazy thing is that you need a new cylinder too! So he was out some big $. It does not have an AGLT suspension, I made my own A-Arms that are a true 2.5" longer with correct geometry. The AGLT is close but does have a few points that bind, works for some. I also wanted to use the stock shorter shocks. I have a set-up to use everything from the 14 3/8, 16's on the ZR the 18" on the ZR plus the Firecat shocks. I did not want to spend the money on newer shocks plus a total rebuild. The project was to see we we could do with a stock set-up with a few modifications. The best mod really are the floor board. By removing the stock stirrup's you can move your feet up about 4-5" flat, that really lets you get into the sled more. I basically have a newer version of the Black Magic KTX kit. The set-up you see, once adjusted will have 4" of ride-in. I will not be using that spindle, just for mock-up work. With my A-Arms there is no work to be done on the spindles unless you want to trim the lower point out, of which we do. For the track I am going to use a 128", plus I have rolled the chain case down and back 2". Which will put is back like a 136", again its what was available for the project.

MC




Attached File  Black Magic KTX.jpg (2.63MB)
Number of downloads: 48
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#4 User is offline   Pelle15 Icon

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 10:27 PM

View Postmonstercoach, on 14 August 2011 - 04:55 PM, said:

Delow,

I have another engine that we plan to use. Your right about how quick it went back down. He said it would take about ten minutes and then it was done. Crazy thing is that you need a new cylinder too! So he was out some big $. It does not have an AGLT suspension, I made my own A-Arms that are a true 2.5" longer with correct geometry. The AGLT is close but does have a few points that bind, works for some. I also wanted to use the stock shorter shocks. I have a set-up to use everything from the 14 3/8, 16's on the ZR the 18" on the ZR plus the Firecat shocks. I did not want to spend the money on newer shocks plus a total rebuild. The project was to see we we could do with a stock set-up with a few modifications. The best mod really are the floor board. By removing the stock stirrup's you can move your feet up about 4-5" flat, that really lets you get into the sled more. I basically have a newer version of the Black Magic KTX kit. The set-up you see, once adjusted will have 4" of ride-in. I will not be using that spindle, just for mock-up work. With my A-Arms there is no work to be done on the spindles unless you want to trim the lower point out, of which we do. For the track I am going to use a 128", plus I have rolled the chain case down and back 2". Which will put is back like a 136", again its what was available for the project.

MC




Attachment Black Magic KTX.jpg


Are you using the KTX or did you just use it as a template and build your own?
Looking for a 98-99 ZR/ZL 500/600 Stator. PM ME
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#5 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 08:12 AM

View PostPelle15, on 19 August 2011 - 10:27 PM, said:

Are you using the KTX or did you just use it as a template and build your own?


A friend of mine has a KTX kit on his ZR440 SnoPro and we took that idea and the AGLT idea and started to concept. We quickly saw a few points that were less than what we were looking for. Shock angle and motion ratio were on the top of the list. We did a lot of modeling to get the most out of the set-in shock angle, droop shock angle and motion ratio. When the set-up is tuned in there is 4" of droop with the shock angle increasing to around 32 degrees and at normal riding height the shock angle is around 35 degrees. We also did a lot of work on the camber angle. The AGLT puts this about 2 degrees off from stock and at normal riding height around 1 degree off from center. In the pictures it looks like our camber is crazy. Not so, when you get the suspension into the normal riding range it is on for a stock camber angle. Keep in mind that the suspension has 4" of up travel to get there, rotating the spindle into the correct camber angle.

We like most of the people that do something like this did not want to go crazy with the $. Sure I can make a set of a-arms just like the 00+ ZR/ZRT and purchase a set of 18" shocks. But what I have found to be affordable is to take what I have and make it work. Sure people on here and other sites write about the great deal they got on-line for a whole front end is great. But the reality is that is only a start for what you have to do to get it to where it is functional. Things like rebuilding the shocks, stripping the a-arms, cutting the spindles, etc. were all things that we thought about. They are all hidden costs. The idea of using your shocks that you know all about and reusing them was the main driver. Shocks can be expensive and quick. Also not cutting the spindles helps keep the cost down and the aggravation of finding someone to do it as well. Also we reuse the stock sway bar.

In the end we like our triples so much that we make one-off chassis and with these a-arms we have even used the firecat shocks and even some 20" shocks with only relocating the top mounting point in the bulkhead. The biggest thing to keep in mind is that there was a ton of R&D done just by reading what is available here and on a few other sites. Ride reports alone on the AGLT would drive/motivate an engineer to break it down to find out what make it tick. Plus the fact that with even a 600 triple you can smoke and I mean smoke just about everything on the trails with this kind of set-up. Our test sled is a 96 ZRT 600 that has beat-up on more F7, REV's, etc to more than drive us to put this set-up on a TCAT. Smoke them on the trails and then across the lake! This design was validated by all who have done the AGLT set-up of which is awesome and reported how well it worked. Thanks again for the helpful information.

MC
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#6 User is offline   Pelle15 Icon

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 09:12 AM

lucky friend, KTXs are hard to find.

so you used all stock parts, just built your own a-arms?
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#7 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 04:48 PM

View PostPelle15, on 21 August 2011 - 09:12 AM, said:

lucky friend, KTXs are hard to find.

so you used all stock parts, just built your own a-arms?


Yes very lucky. They are Chromoly not Carbon, but hey he has them. My buddy was a Black Magic fan. He has a lot of parts, even the catalog page you see! Yes I use all stock parts, other than the lower a-arm. I use the upper from a 00+ ZR/ZRT. I make the steering links as well but that is not necessary, you could use the 00+ as well. I like to make them with the hex on one side for adjustment. I also make the engine mount on the speedo side, due to the fact that I roll them back 2" plus a new bearing mount. This year I have started to make my own bars as well. I could not stand to spend the money on new bars and then heat them to get it right for me or the person that I was building the sled for. Ergonomic are everything for a great sled.

My wife rides a 98 ZRT 800 that I worked on for a long time to get it right for her. At 5'3" and 100 lbs it was a ton of work. Got the bars done then it was the seat then it was the shocks on and on and on. She rides it pretty hard. Its got the front end like this one plus a big triple and at 5'3" people do a double take. She jumped it pretty good last year and knocked her self out on the handle bars! Her chin came right down on the cross bar and out she went. She launched off of a plowed bank and then went about 10 feet down a drainage ditch, in all it was a 15' drop for her. The landing was awesome, snow shot out all around. But then when she did not move I know something was up.
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#8 User is offline   Pelle15 Icon

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 05:00 PM

View Postmonstercoach, on 21 August 2011 - 04:48 PM, said:

Yes very lucky. They are Chromoly not Carbon, but hey he has them. My buddy was a Black Magic fan. He has a lot of parts, even the catalog page you see! Yes I use all stock parts, other than the lower a-arm. I use the upper from a 00+ ZR/ZRT. I make the steering links as well but that is not necessary, you could use the 00+ as well. I like to make them with the hex on one side for adjustment. I also make the engine mount on the speedo side, due to the fact that I roll them back 2" plus a new bearing mount. This year I have started to make my own bars as well. I could not stand to spend the money on new bars and then heat them to get it right for me or the person that I was building the sled for. Ergonomic are everything for a great sled.

My wife rides a 98 ZRT 800 that I worked on for a long time to get it right for her. At 5'3" and 100 lbs it was a ton of work. Got the bars done then it was the seat then it was the shocks on and on and on. She rides it pretty hard. Its got the front end like this one plus a big triple and at 5'3" people do a double take. She jumped it pretty good last year and knocked her self out on the handle bars! Her chin came right down on the cross bar and out she went. She launched off of a plowed bank and then went about 10 feet down a drainage ditch, in all it was a 15' drop for her. The landing was awesome, snow shot out all around. But then when she did not move I know something was up.


so the only Difference between what you made and the AGLT is that it is rolled back 2"?
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#9 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 06:31 PM

View PostPelle15, on 21 August 2011 - 05:00 PM, said:

so the only Difference between what you made and the AGLT is that it is rolled back 2"?


The AGLT and what I have are two totally different animals. The stock 2000+ ZR A-ARMs on a AWS4 has close geometry to what is required, we just tweaked it a little to make it exact plus added the KTX style shock mount. The chain case has been roller back 2" plus about 3/4" down. The floor board have been modified. The stock stirrups have been removed and then ported and dimpled for strength. By removing the stock stirrups you can move your feet up further, about 4". That mode plus flipping the steering post on the other side of the hoop you are about as close to the engine and clutches as you are going to get. On my sled I have a 8" riser with a 15 degree angle, the ergo's are about the same as the newer F chassis.
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#10 User is offline   LimeChild Icon

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 10:22 PM

nice. Think I will have to stick with AGLT mod. I do wish I was your neighbor though....

Nice write up on the sled. Like to know more and see more pics of the chaincase mod/roll...

LimeChild
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#11 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 03:17 PM

View PostLimeChild, on 22 August 2011 - 10:22 PM, said:

nice. Think I will have to stick with AGLT mod. I do wish I was your neighbor though....

Nice write up on the sled. Like to know more and see more pics of the chaincase mod/roll...

LimeChild


What would you like to know? I can tell you what ever you would like to know about the mod.
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#12 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 05:17 PM

I am trying to add more pics however they will not upload! Anyone have an idea for how to upload pics at the moment?
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#13 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 04:22 PM

View Postmonstercoach, on 06 September 2011 - 05:17 PM, said:

I am trying to add more pics however they will not upload! Anyone have an idea for how to upload pics at the moment?


Finally they were able to be uploaded. I have finished the motor mount, steering links, and modified steering post. You can also see the modification to the tunnel for rotating the chain case. I will assembly the drive shaft to show how much clearance there is to the front cooler. Getting closer to the end of fabrication! More pics soon.


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#14 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 06:43 PM

These pics (see below) show what the rolled chain case does for us. With this setup I can now run pretty much any track and still clear the front heat exchanger. There is almost 4" of clearance. The restriction now is to the top of the tunnel. You can also see the additional support/cover for the old holes (stock chain case location).



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#15 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 06:44 PM

Hope that the warm weather holds up for a little longer, otherwise I am going to want to ride.
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#16 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 06:50 PM

For some reason they are not showing on the other post above.
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#17 User is offline   John Sandberg Icon

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 08:48 PM

Monster: This is an awesome project/write-up. Thanks for sharing.

Where do you ride?
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#18 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 09:07 AM

John,
Wow I am surprised you replied! Michigan is home base, however I have been known to ride in Scandinavia when there. This all started when the economic downturn hit. We started to update the older sleds to help keep the cost down and people riding. We had a lot of new ideas and figured that we should try and put it all on an old chassis. Normally we are starting from scratch. But the cost is higher and we are trying to utilize what an individual would have on hand
I just finished the riser and handle bars, we bend our own to get it right. I will post more soon. Again thank you all for your interests, after all you all have driven us to build something like this. More to come..



MC
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#19 User is offline   monstercoach Icon

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 05:22 PM

Ok a little more progress. I assembled the sled before it goes to get blasted and powder coated, so comments about the mess in the back ground. I took some pics of the a-arms being fabricated, the motor mount repair, the front end assembled with AWS5 spindles the pics prior had AWS4 spindles both work for us. The seat and tank are next. The motor mount repair I should elaberate on a little, only because I have never seen the previous repair. The motor mount studs were busted off. So what the previous owner did was tack weld the motor mount to the chassis. He did a great job because I had to cut off the entire mount and make a new one. The rear mount by the clutch I see broken all the time and have a new design for that, see above. But this one was crazy. There must have been 3-4 busted belts in the belly pan. Funny thing was that the cluch alignment was right on like that. Take a look at the steering links, with the hex on one end for ajustment.

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MC
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#20 User is offline   Delow Icon

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 10:01 AM

That is looking pretty good, love the progress. Are you by chance going to paint everything up nicely? I read something about powdercoat but guessing thats just the aarms? Anyways keep up the good work!
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