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Signs Of An Engine Air Leak

#1 User is offline   Danzig Icon

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 08:25 AM

You may have an air leak on your engine if your sled is doing .....



curious on what guys have experienced.
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Posted 02 January 2011 - 08:39 AM

Most of my air leaks were due to bad water pumps on triple when the rod went through the case :shocked:
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Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:58 AM

here, this is copy and paste from another forum I sent out this morning...please read.


This is my issue, not a vintage, lets call it classic.

1995 Cat ZR580, twin cylinder liquid cooled, Suzuki engine

scenario-broken crank at the clutch

remedy- changed crank

problems possibly ? I used an anerobic silicone from Permatex, red stuff, little blue tube. After a 2 weeks, this stuff is still soft and gooey. The issue possibly, maybe its just me, start the sled and runs perfect, cold idle is at 2500, after about 1-2 minutes it will idle down to 1500. Crack the throttle idle is at 2500 rpm's and 45 seconds later or so it will drop to 1500 again. Yesterday I did the carb cleaner trick and starting fluid trick, noticed a decline in rpm's when it was at 2500 rpms after I sprayed the front of the engine right under the exhaust. I kept looking for problems and found that a carb cable was sticking due to a zip tie being applied in the wrong place and removed zip tie and it went down to 1500. I let the engine cool down, room temp, 70 degrees. Fired it up, it idled at 2500, then dropped to 1500, I sprayed the engine again no problems, no increase or decrease in idle. Get sled home, 20 degrees outside, full choke, started up, ran at 2500 and after a minute or two, idle dropped to 1500, cracked the throttle and it went to 2500 rpms 45 seconds later it dropped back down to 1500. Am I nervous ? This idle thing, CDI related ?
''Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It""..........................I can't stand rain.............................

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#4 User is offline   Danzig Icon

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:07 AM

View PostDanzig, on 02 January 2011 - 09:58 AM, said:

here, this is copy and paste from another forum I sent out this morning...please read.


This is my issue, not a vintage, lets call it classic.

1995 Cat ZR580, twin cylinder liquid cooled, Suzuki engine

scenario-broken crank at the clutch

remedy- changed crank

problems possibly ? I used an anerobic silicone from Permatex, red stuff, little blue tube. After a 2 weeks, this stuff is still soft and gooey. The issue possibly, maybe its just me, start the sled and runs perfect, cold idle is at 2500, after about 1-2 minutes it will idle down to 1500. Crack the throttle idle is at 2500 rpm's and 45 seconds later or so it will drop to 1500 again. Yesterday I did the carb cleaner trick and starting fluid trick, noticed a decline in rpm's when it was at 2500 rpms after I sprayed the front of the engine right under the exhaust. I kept looking for problems and found that a carb cable was sticking due to a zip tie being applied in the wrong place and removed zip tie and it went down to 1500. I let the engine cool down, room temp, 70 degrees. Fired it up, it idled at 2500, then dropped to 1500, I sprayed the engine again no problems, no increase or decrease in idle. Get sled home, 20 degrees outside, full choke, started up, ran at 2500 and after a minute or two, idle dropped to 1500, cracked the throttle and it went to 2500 rpms 45 seconds later it dropped back down to 1500. Am I nervous ? This idle thing, CDI related ?
http://www.permatex....ket_Maker_b.htm
''Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It""..........................I can't stand rain.............................

http://www.youtube.c...es?feature=mhum
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Posted 02 January 2011 - 11:48 AM

I have used that stuff but not as a case sealant..Sounds like the motor is just lean for a moment ..then fattens up to make it idel back down ...that or you clutch maybe sticky
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#6 User is offline   Danzig Icon

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 03:35 PM

Its all good.

I think it all was related to cables and carb slides binding up a little. Today she is perfect. This old gal was road hard and put away wet. I think I can pump some life back into her.

Come on mail man...send the goods !! :drinking-6-pack:

Posted Image
''Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It""..........................I can't stand rain.............................

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 06:28 PM

View PostSHAKER, on 02 January 2011 - 12:48 PM, said:

I have used that stuff but not as a case sealant..Sounds like the motor is just lean for a moment ..then fattens up to make it idel back down ...that or you clutch maybe sticky


SEA-FOAM it! :wub:
Keep a fire extingusher in your garage!


Speed does not kill, it's what you run into!

Ice is for racing on, asphalt is for getting there!
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#8 User is offline   Danzig Icon

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 06:42 PM

my last post. click on the pic.
''Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It""..........................I can't stand rain.............................

http://www.youtube.c...es?feature=mhum
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#9 User is offline   Insanecat Icon

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:56 PM

View PostDanzig, on 02 January 2011 - 07:42 PM, said:

my last post. click on the pic.


Sounds OK to me!
Keep a fire extingusher in your garage!


Speed does not kill, it's what you run into!

Ice is for racing on, asphalt is for getting there!
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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:29 AM

That permatex stuff has always been good for all my rebuilds. Use with confidence!
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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:15 PM

View PostDanzig, on 02 January 2011 - 06:42 PM, said:

my last post. click on the pic.


Your belt looks a little low in the secondary. Maybe a shim, or two, is in order.
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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:55 PM

Its close, I agree.
''Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It""..........................I can't stand rain.............................

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 11:37 AM

View PostSHAKER, on 02 January 2011 - 08:39 AM, said:

Most of my air leaks were due to bad water pumps on triple when the rod went through the case :shocked:

That has got to be the funniest post about an air leak i've ever seen!


View PostSHAKER, on 02 January 2011 - 11:48 AM, said:

I have used that stuff but not as a case sealant..Sounds like the motor is just lean for a moment ..then fattens up to make it idel back down ...that or you clutch maybe sticky

Spot on,, mixture screw adjustment inwards of approx 1/8-1/4 turn should eliminate over 70% of that "hang" time

View PostDanzig, on 02 January 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

Its all good.

I think it all was related to cables and carb slides binding up a little. Today she is perfect. This old gal was road hard and put away wet. I think I can pump some life back into her.

Come on mail man...send the goods !! :drinking-6-pack:

Posted Image

I still recommend three bond 1194 over that stuff, seen the permatex sealer you used as oem on bombardier watercraft engine products and sled engines in distant past, just never been 100% convinced,, best thing if still gonna use it in future though is make 100% sure whole complete 1 case surface (machined parting lines of joined halves)is covered completely,, stuff doesn't cure like 3-bond and i'm a little skeptical of fuel and oils effects on it possibly leading down road to air leaks,,,?

Nice shop BTW :beer:
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#14 User is offline   Danzig Icon

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 12:24 PM

I got a message from a person who builds race engines and has not any problems using this stuff that I used and still uses it today. Each there own I guess, i wont use it again.
''Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It""..........................I can't stand rain.............................

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 05:11 PM

"To each their own" Paul, i'm just saying I hold reserve judgement based on what i've seen (felt consistency of substance upon teardowns) in how it compares vs three bond,, racers pull their stuff down a lot, maybe good for shorter periods,, I just have my reservations about its long term lasting efficiency based upon personal notes made in past, that's all,,
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#16 User is offline   Danzig Icon

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 06:18 PM

no offense taken what so ever, I just put it out to this racer guy's idealogy. I wont be tearing mine back unless after some high speed runs and plug checks I notice something odd. :drinking-6-pack:
''Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It""..........................I can't stand rain.............................

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 08:12 PM

Good info here. Thanks.
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Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:27 AM

Just to clarify what i consider "sketchy",, the only oem manufacturers i've seen use the permatex product have cases that use a much wider "cross section" of machined sealing surface where that'd support the non-curing consistency of that product,, any other oem manufacturer uses 3-bond type product for much narrower cross sectioned case meeting surfaces where as the 3-bond "semi-cures" into an elastic type consistency and is preferred by most others,,
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#19 User is offline   Danzig Icon

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 12:12 PM

I have learned that anerobic sealant will seal and harden only in the areas where it is put under pressure. No pressure it will stay gooey so to speak.
''Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It""..........................I can't stand rain.............................

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#20 User is offline   C-note Icon

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    '90 WC65L/C
    '89 WC65L/C,,,,,,, just to name a few
  • My Atv(s):My SUV... 250k+ of pure fun.

Posted 06 January 2011 - 12:24 PM

It hardens, but in "spotty" (not 100% coverage of pinched areas) portions,, it has been found not cured in areas it should have been hardened in over past experiences,, my whole point really
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